Chad Curtis: The Power of Authentic Leadership

Joel Galloway: TJ, Chad is incredible.

T.J. Crosby: Hahaha! Yes, he is. Yes, he is. He's, he's one of our favorites. think you mentioned in the podcast that he's one of our favorite people in the industry and he truly is. He's very down to earth and willing to help and really cares about the industry and the people in it. Great conversation. That's right. That's right.

Joel Galloway: That's our kind of people, right? That's our, which I think that's really, all of our guests have had that in some capacity, but he definitely really kind of locks into mine and your vibe that we have. So we probably could have left the record button on for a couple more hours, but who really wants to listen to us talk more than just the three of us?

T.J. Crosby: Right. Yeah. Right. Like he said, we could just record a podcast every day. Let's just meet every day and record the podcast. Right. We could do it. We could do it. Yeah.

Joel Galloway: That's right. That's it. loved that. I loved that he, number one, is unashamed about his faith. Not in an aggressive, abrasive way, but it, but it's just, it's, is a such a clear defined part of who he is. And another thing that I picked up on is he's a, he's a funny guy.

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Joel Galloway: And like he's a jokester. mean, that's that was my first impression of meeting him when I mentioned that, like he's a cut up, but he he's very vulnerable. Like, honestly, in a way that is a little disarming, like I wasn't expecting him to be that transparent and vulnerable about some of the the struggles and the kind of the ⁓ internal conflict that he was having in his previous role and about how deep lead that affected him. And I just relate to that. I feel things deeply, maybe more so than some. so it's just when I come across other people who they kind of feel feelings on the kind of that maybe one level lower than just a casual thing, that's always refreshing to see that you can have that and still be successful.

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm. Right. And willing to share it. Right. Like it's part of what makes him who he is. think people talk a lot about ⁓ authenticity, which probably gets overused to be honest. ⁓ But what the word I would use for, for Chad, whether it comes to like how he approaches his work or how committed he is to relationships or trying to serve people or his faith, he just truly is genuine. He's, he's a, he's a genuine article, right? That's with him very much. What you see is what you get.

Joel Galloway: Yes.

T.J. Crosby: Like he's unapologetically himself and that's what we really want people to be, especially when they're good people like he is.

Joel Galloway: Well, that's inspiring. I said the word inspiring. It's at one point when we were talking, but it really is because that's who I want to be. And I know you enough to know that's the kind of person you want to be. mean, we're doing this right here because we just want to be us and share and kind of let the viewers kind of just be a part of these conversations that you and I just have on our own. with the hope that maybe something that is said, it will be wisdom that will help them or I mean, maybe a laugh or two along the way or whatever, but I think it's really powerful and I strive in my life as well to have that level of genuineness in what I say and do.

T.J. Crosby: Is there anything that he said ⁓ in the way of giving advice or kind of talking through his background that stood out with you in particular that you feel like it would be a good takeaway for others that are listening?

Joel Galloway: Yes, I really found it interesting his, his desire and action that he took to step in between. And I'm going to, I'm going to call it for the sake of this story, toxic leadership down to the end user of the employees. He could have stayed comfortable.

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Joel Galloway: He could have stayed out of the way where it didn't, it wasn't his problem, but his heart for people is so evident. And the fact that he was willing to basically become a buffer between that kind of toxic negative leadership style and the people who feel the brunt of that, ⁓ that is real leadership. I mean, that is taking, seeing stuff that is not necessarily yours or answering the higher calling to something that people aren't even aware of. know, those are the signs of great leadership. And I'm sure that they did, I by his own testimony, help him grow tremendously. That's all good looking in the rear view mirror, but let's not sidestep the fact that that was extremely difficult for him to do that and caused him a lot of emotional turmoil along the way and probably a lot of days of wondering, you know, is what I'm doing the right thing or is, you know, is this, is this what I'm how that I should handle this? But he had a deeper purpose. that led and drove him to reach beyond what maybe was in his job description. And I find that encouraging and ⁓ something that I hope that I can emulate in whatever way life brings to me.

T.J. Crosby: Right. No, it's good. I mean, I think about there's ⁓ kind of a picture I've seen online. Usually it's related to like a parent and their children, but it's somebody who's holding a shield up ⁓ and like the people that they're taking care of are underneath the shield and they've got like arrows in their back and on the shield, but ⁓ the team or the children or whatever the case are safe. And I think it's very similar.

Joel Galloway: Yes. Yes.

T.J. Crosby: picture, think good leaders, especially when they're in tough environments, regardless of your job title, whatever, you'll step in and try to absorb some of that ⁓ negativity rolling down the hill and not allowed to continue going that you stop it with you, right? Yeah.

Joel Galloway: Yes. Yes, absolutely. I did that in my previous role. There were multiple times that I consciously chose not to push it onto the people below me because, and to just be the buffer on that. yes, stopping that role, that trickle down effect is definitely, I think, If everybody did that, like the workplace would be a better place. But it's so easy to take that energy and just redirect it at the next person who can't say no to it. And that's not right. And that's not fair. And we, we should strive to be better people than.

T.J. Crosby: Agreed, and especially if you are centered around faith. Those of us who feel like we have faith in our lives, you have a higher power that gives you strength to be able to resist letting it roll down the hill that maybe other people don't have, right? That's not part of their kind of the way they live their life. those situations may feel even tougher for them than it might feel for you. And so we may as well take the brunt, you know, so.

Joel Galloway: Yes. Yes. Good stuff. Well, I thought it was a fantastic time. Can't wait to have it back again on the 20th anniversary episode. And ⁓ I've got that on my mind because of Hannah Montana lately. Watch that with my girls this weekend. Anyway, maybe we will be doing this 20 years from now. I sure hope so. But for those of you who are watching, we are so glad that you joined us. Make sure that you come back.

T.J. Crosby: Right. I had a Montana. Right?

Joel Galloway: and tune in the next time. We'll have another fantastic guest with lots of insight about the world around us and our industry. And until then, make sure that you like, share, and subscribe, and we'll see you next time. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Blueprint. I'm Joel Galloway alongside the CEO of Concrete Careers and EBS HR Consulting, TJ Crosby. We're here for another episode. TJ, how's it going?

T.J. Crosby: Going well, excited to have another guest join, excited for Chad to share with us some of his background and some of the things around his mind. So excited about that.

Joel Galloway: That's awesome. Well, I don't think that we need to delay because he's right here in the wings. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to our show, the legendary Chad Curtis. Chad, how's it going? Well,

Chad Curtis: It's going good. I thank you for the high praise.

Joel Galloway: Well, I mean, you're one of our favorite people in the industry. And I mean, I've only been here eight months. And so that's really saying something.

T.J. Crosby: Absolutely.

Chad Curtis: Thank you guys. It's a pleasure to be on with you guys just to be hanging out and kind of shooting the breeze.

Joel Galloway: Well, we're glad to have you here. We know you love basketball. We got to get your March Madness updates. Hit us with your bracket. How's it looking?

Chad Curtis: ⁓ my god. No, actually my bracket is good. am currently winning the concile pool, but that is only because it's a complete accident. yeah.

Joel Galloway: Okay. I

Chad Curtis: We had like, we were sitting in the airport and we're like, Hey, we need to get the team together for ⁓ a bracket challenge. And so we put it together and then it was like, Hey, it ends in five minutes. I hurried and put my teams in and off I went. So, ⁓ I think I got three of the final four teams in it. So not that that's a crazy. Yeah. So, ⁓ if I'm going to humble brag, I'm pretty good at basketball and I'm not, I'm not really.

Joel Galloway: You Really? Okay, now did you play basketball or are you just a passionate fan?

Chad Curtis: So I did a little bit. I did a little bit. if I'm being, I mean, might as well be an open book. ⁓ I don't like sweaty people touching me. like any sport that like requires like tons of like touching, like I was just like, I'm out. Like it was fine through like ninth grade, but then it was like, ooh, your arms are really sweaty. You can shoot it. And then when it's my turn, let me shoot it and we'll see who's better. But like.

T.J. Crosby: You

Joel Galloway: So what sports did that leave you if you are removing the presence of sweaty people?

Chad Curtis: well, those are golf golf. So golf, you're by yourself tennis and like baseball was fine. There wasn't too much touching in baseball. ⁓ So those are the main three. was like tennis, golf and baseball were kind of the go to

T.J. Crosby: That's it.

Joel Galloway: I you are tall. I know the camera doesn't highlight that today, but I mean, I'll be honest with you. Ever since I met you, I've always looked up to you.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Well, thank you. I have noticed the shrinking has begun to start though. So like my license Yeah, yeah, so like six four I'm not to get out of here six six four range is what the license says and then I think I went to the doctor about a month ago and it was like six three and a half or something now, so the I need

T.J. Crosby: that looks, you know.

Joel Galloway: Is the spine compressing already? At 29?

T.J. Crosby: you. Okay.

Joel Galloway: Okay, so we'll have to have you on annually to give us a height update.

Chad Curtis: Yeah, I need a stretchy table. Yeah. Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: Right? ⁓ It's like the opposite of like kids growing up on the doorframe you measure like as we get older, we start measuring how much we're losing, right?

Joel Galloway: Okay. On his office doorframe. It's each year, but it's going down.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah, you can see how stressful the year was by how much I have shrunk. Exactly.

Joel Galloway: Yes. Yep.

T.J. Crosby: Right, right. Yeah. Well, that's it. Have you ever noticed when you get in your car and your rear view mirror, you can tell how tired you were the day before when you're driving because you have to like move your mirror up, you know, like, I was like, I slept like this.

Chad Curtis: I haven't noticed that. Yesterday was horrible.

Joel Galloway: Yes. Or when you've had a bad day and you just do the completely ride home in silence. Like that's a whole nother measurement of your stress level. Well, my...

T.J. Crosby: Right, yeah.

Chad Curtis: Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: Chad, you talk about the splayiness. I tried out, ⁓ I was like, ⁓ you know, I had people that I knew that did, I think it's jujitsu, right? Is that what it is? ⁓ The ground grapple. And I was like, ⁓ that might be fun to try. One time, one time I went and did it. I was like, this is, this dude is like all upon me. This is, I don't, this is not my vibe.

Chad Curtis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah, no thank you.

Joel Galloway: ⁓ yeah. Hey, hey listen, listen, if you come down here on the floor, like you better look out because I'm gonna, I'll be able to get you. Like up there, not so much, but down here, like it's my land.

T.J. Crosby: Right. Right.

Chad Curtis: No, no. There is a group of guys at church where they like they get together for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu like once a week. So one of the guys is from Brazil at church and they get together and he teaches and they do it and they're like you should come and I'm like absolutely not like I do not want your legs around my neck in any fashion.

T.J. Crosby: That's what that, that, right, right, that, that, that, that

Joel Galloway: No, I don't think I could do that. Well, okay. Did you say did I miss who's winning at all? You said you got three of the final four?

Chad Curtis: ⁓ I don't I got three in there. Yeah, I don't know who's winning at all. had I actually the team that didn't make it is the team I had winning. So I had Houston winning. And the only reason I picked Houston was because I was in Houston at the time of picking. Yeah, so who's gonna win? I don't know. Maybe ⁓ maybe Arizona's winning.

Joel Galloway: ⁓ well, I mean, that's using that strategy right there.

T.J. Crosby: Hmm.

Joel Galloway: Well, I know one team that will not win and that's my Tar Heels. Because now they don't even have a coach.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah.

Chad Curtis: ⁓ they're just gonna say they don't even have a coach now. Bummer.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah, escorted out of the building. Yeah. Always. You can't always I think you can. They've been strong. They've been in it what? Last three years, they it to the Final Four. It's something like.

Joel Galloway: That what a mess. So yeah, I thought he was.

Chad Curtis: Sorry about that. Now, I don't know who's going to Yeah. That was a sweet ending to the game though. ⁓ last second, whatever, half-court-ish shot. That was crazy. Crazy.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah.

Joel Galloway: Those are the best games. know people want to see their team win, like whether, I mean, I love NASCAR. It's the same with races. Like I don't want to see somebody blow the whole thing out, have a, have a 50, you know, 50 point lead. That's not exciting. I mean, it is, if you're trying to like win a championship maybe or whatever, and you just want to make sure that it's secure, but the best games in all of sports are the most memorable ones. Are these ones where things happen at the last second?

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

Joel Galloway: And so, I I think those are awesome moments.

T.J. Crosby: you

Chad Curtis: Yeah, as a casual fan, that's what we'd like. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's fine.

Joel Galloway: Yes. Well, speaking of this intense, deep strategy you use to create your bracket and on all the preparation that it took for you to do that, you've got quite the background in the industry, like marketing and design degree. Like you got to tell you got to tell us more about that. Like.

Chad Curtis: Yeah Yeah. ⁓ so, ⁓ started off like right out of, at a college getting a dream job for me. So as much as I don't like touching people in sports, I love sports in general. right out of, right out of college, I started in the basement at a, ⁓ a sports architecture firm where the only, only thing that we did was creative architecture in the sports world environment. So. sports stadiums, arenas, practice facilities, anything like that. So I was loving life as a young man, just being like, let's do this. This is exactly what I want to do. Everything I love, whether it was starting, starting the low man on the pole, it didn't matter, you know, doing grunt work there. And so from there, I worked my way through that company's fairly small firm. worked my way from the low man to basically running the company in 17 years and so from there and we can dive more into that one, ⁓ from there ⁓ Made a career change about six years ago to come here to concrete sealants Jess and I have been Jess is the president of concia. We've been friends for a long time And with his encouragement and some change and where I was in my life, made a good sense to make a move. So my entire career has been two jobs, sports architecture for 17 years, and then now here at Conceal for another six.

Joel Galloway: Wow.

T.J. Crosby: a common trend that tends to come up in some of these conversations around that. A lot of people have been on their, like that willingness to come in and grind or willingness to make that change. And I love that you have that theme too. We're like, Hey, like I wear from here to run in the company. It's like, it's a real thing.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, when you, it's when you love something, it certainly makes it not work.

Joel Galloway: Amen to that brother. Amen.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. And so, ⁓ I, I dearly enjoyed that job and there's many trials in that job, which we can talk about and how that relates to the title of your podcast, the persistence, the perseverance aspect of it. And so it was definitely a wonderful opportunity and my growth as a person, can specifically credit to that job. What what I learned to do and not to do from that.

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: you go ahead.

T.J. Crosby: far the kind of, were talking a little bit earlier ⁓ before we into the podcast itself around ⁓ the values industry that we're in, but also I know from ⁓ Jesse and the team that it's the organization itself is pretty values driven. ⁓ So what that look like kind

Chad Curtis: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: of to day?

Chad Curtis: Great question. I think like we talked about only having two jobs in my career, lot of that change, the making that change stemmed from the values. And we talked about how important those are, especially as you age in life and you have children and you're making decisions about things that are more important than finances. ⁓ The old job where I loved the work, it was a perfect example of what not to do. or what to expect based upon the leadership there. And so while you can do what you can in a leadership role, know, ⁓ true leadership and values does come down from the top a lot of times, or those above you in some fashion. And so my change to concrete sealants, ⁓ a lot of it was not based on finances, but based on the idea of true service, of true care, of true concern and love for other people, whether they're an employee or a customer or, or there's many people that we ⁓ serve that are not customers. Like there's people that call on Conceal for any number of reasons over the past 15, 20 years who have never bought a thing from us. And so those type of seeds planted, ⁓

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: were really one of the driving things that brought me to concrete sealants was, hey, this is an opportunity to work, to provide for my family, but also to take care of people and serve them in ways more than just concrete. It could have been any industry that Conceal was involved in. The values is what

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: brought me here more than a product.

Joel Galloway: So like when when was the moment without getting too specific about your previous role? What was kind of in a general sense, the moment when you knew that like, hey, I need to make a change or how did you have that awakening, if you will?

T.J. Crosby: of

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: Yeah, I don't know if you've ever had a conflict, an internal conflict where you love something deeply, but at the same time, you can see the the infection or the disease or the cause of certain things in that fashion. And so where a lot of people said have said they have mentors that guided them and grew them along the way, I can say that I've had the opposite. I've had many examples of what not to do as a leader. ⁓ And so if you are a manager of some sort and you have a team that works for you and there are ⁓ ways that they are treated, including yourself, that are a prime example of what not to do is that is how do I want to say this? You get to sit in

Joel Galloway: ⁓ I can totally relate to that.

Chad Curtis: the repercussions of those things as a middleman, as a manager of to see the fallout of ⁓ whether it's ⁓ language to ⁓ any sort of demeaning behavior. ⁓ So basically in the inverse, and I was able to see firsthand the fruits of poor leadership and ⁓ That was a very, I would consider myself not necessarily a outgoing person, ⁓ but it was very motivating to say if I'm ever in this type of position, that is not what I'm going to do.

Joel Galloway: Yep, I've lived that too. Absolutely.

T.J. Crosby: I'm curious, you know, I went through some similar thoughts and challenges when I was in the private equity realm. know, so worked with some really good leaders along the way, but there was always this kind of this pressure around how things would get done and kind of that month over month, quarter over quarter, what have you done for me lately, kind of I, it's hard to build a culture long-term. And for me, I kind of had this sense that once I got to be the top HR,

Chad Curtis: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: executive that I would be able to influence the culture to the level that I would want to. And I realized that I couldn't, part of why I stepped away and bought my own company, because I always believed kind of work is for the Lord rather than men. I finally got a post like, well, I'm just going to work only for the Lord. That's kind of why. I'm curious if you had a similar, or the brother of the but, but you know, when you got to the, where you were running the company, did you have this idea that you could get to that

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joel Galloway: Yeah, that's right. I'm the only man that I'm going to work for then.

Chad Curtis: Ha ha ha ha.

T.J. Crosby: seat and make a change and then realize that still wasn't really possible. Yeah.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. So through some ⁓ external sources, whether it's friends at church, accountability groups, things like that, ⁓ I learned about, I don't know, halfway through my career there that, or how about this, I not necessarily learned, but started applying that influence can also work upwards. And so... ⁓

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: I took special care ⁓ to spend time with those above me and communicate in a way that was, I would say, ⁓ out of character for most people there, ⁓ to say, Hey, I, I would like to be that buffer between you and the team here. And so, ⁓ using, using the pain points that management had, I would say, let me take those, let me take those pain points. Let me be the one that communicates these. And so.

T.J. Crosby: Mm. Mm-hmm. you

Chad Curtis: While I would get maybe some of the, ⁓ the hostility or the frustration, ⁓ to me, it became a much more narrow way to get that information to the team. And so, ⁓ we had a lot more, ⁓ private type of meetings, ⁓ one-on-one conversations, but it was a way for me to take. Frustrations filter that and filter out the inappropriate behavior, ⁓ the toxic behavior. And then, ⁓ It was able to help everyone because it was able to ⁓ remove that from the those doing it, but also to give some comfort when trust was built into the management, basically saying, Hey, Hey, Chad's getting it done. We don't need to be this way. So, ⁓ over, you know, so there was a lot of, a lot of fruit came from that. And so once that trust was invested on both sides, it was just a natural progression of, ⁓ Hey, Chad's going to do it and off we go.

T.J. Crosby: Right, right.

Joel Galloway: How did it affect those relationships, like with your bosses and with the people underneath you?

Chad Curtis: ⁓ Well, that's an excellent question because as much as I've seen the bosses relationships deteriorate over the years, I've seen many of them secondhand fall apart. ⁓ He is much softer and kinder and thoughtful when it comes to our relationship. ⁓

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: It's interesting to see that because it's so out of character ⁓ for him to act that way. And so when I've seen complete losses of control, and again, this is a small work environment, you you're talking to 20, 30 people. ⁓ When I've seen some of the worst experiences of loss self-control, I've also seen him turn a soft eye when you wouldn't think it because it's...

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: Yeah, that long trusting kind of relationship. do I, would I ever have done anythings the way he, would I have ever done things the way he had done? No. But because of the fruits of the spirit, because of the ways that we've grown some trust, he would, he would let that, he's still to this day been very, we're still friends to this day, I would say. Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: Well, you we're, I know we're going to talk about faith here next more specifically, but, know, you look in biblical examples of Joseph and Daniel, like they're people that were technically, they didn't have a choice. were slaves in effect, but, um, they're through their, but they're through their, their faith and how they approached the work, they gained the trust of the leader and were able to

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very much. Yeah. Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: basically be put in a position to have a positive impact on, you know, others.

Chad Curtis: That's fantastic. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, there are days, and it's like, know we read these biblical stories, you know, and Joseph's a fantastic, you know, my kids love that one. ⁓ But I mean, there were days of just, you know, I remember crying in my car or going home to my wife and just being like, I'm done, I can't do this. I mean, I literally can't do this. Like, ⁓ Through again, perseverance, through grit, through ⁓ others speaking into me. My wife is by no means a quiet person. She definitely gives me the kick in the pants when I need it. ⁓ you know, God has been very good to me through that job, through the trials of that job. He's grown me as a person. He's grown me as a businessman. He's grown me as a leader. And so I'm very thankful for that job, even though it had its moments.

Joel Galloway: You don't grow when it's easy. You don't learn anything when you win. You only learn when you lose.

Chad Curtis: That's very good to...exactly, exactly. And that's something...exactly. Communicate to that, my children, to that all the time. Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: True.

Joel Galloway: Well, you mentioned about your faith, so that's a big part of your life. Tell us more about that and how that factors into your working life today.

Chad Curtis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. There are things that, what I love about the Christian faith and what I love about, we can go deeper into that about sort of the right way to treat people. The fruits that that produces are naturally good business practice. And so it makes it so easy because you can't separate those from who you are as people.

Joel Galloway: Yes.

Chad Curtis: And so things that I know are right because it's ingrained in me as a Christian, I cannot remove those from me. So you cannot, you cannot ask me to treat someone poorly because I don't like the way that they may have done something or, or, or to do business practice in a way that I don't believe is ethical because you can't separate the two. And so, ⁓

Joel Galloway: Sorry.

Chad Curtis: How does faith factor into my job? It's literally living it out daily, whether it's serving ⁓ somebody doing the hardest job in our factory to serving any sort of customer. serve is a word we use regularly here. It's on our walls, downstairs. The founder of the company, you know, 50 years ago said it, he said, who do we serve? And he said, and it's the customers who we serve. And, and it seems cliche because it's said all the time, but I can't seal it's something that we take to heart so intensely where if you, there's an emergency, we will get in our car and drive there hours and hours and hours to get it done. will, we will move having an earth to make things happen for people here. And so we do that for our customers, but, daily, ⁓ what we're, what we're trying to do is serve internally each other as well. And so, there's lots of things we do to take care of one another, to make sure everyone can succeed and to, ⁓ enjoy the nice work life balance. ⁓ you know, I remember my dad saying, well, I was young a lot, you know, ⁓ everybody is somebody, something, you know, and so we, take it very seriously to,

T.J. Crosby: Mm.

Chad Curtis: We have about 110, 120 employees and daily we like to go spend time with everyone, see how their families are doing, see how their work life is going by name, by asking them how their kids are doing and investing in them and wanting them to know that the work they're doing is valued across the country, across the world. Do they know what they're making? Do they know how it's impacting the world around them? When they go home for Thanksgiving or Easter, the Easter's coming up, when they go have you sit down Easter dinner, I want them to more than anything talk about the work they're doing

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: be proud of it.

Joel Galloway: That's inspiring.

T.J. Crosby: Right. Yeah. And that's, I love that you share that. Oftentimes I, when I talk to leaders around, the current, current generations in the workforce, especially the newer generations, the younger generations, they, they want to understand what the values of the company are. Right. And not the values that are on the wall of like, we had a focus group, we came up with five, we put them up here, but like, what are the actual values, but also like, what does the impact of my work have on, and oftentimes people, they'll think that it's

Chad Curtis: you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Galloway: All right.

Chad Curtis: Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: ⁓ we need to go do some kind of service project or something. So they feel like they're making an impact. And it's like, mean, that's good, but really it's what you're talking about. That it, it's okay to make the product you're making or provide the service you're providing. And that's your thrust of a business that you're doing. That's why businesses exist is to ultimately make a product or provide a service and make money. But how do they attach to that mission that you have to do it and do it? Well, do it with excellence is what they want to understand how they impact that. Right. Yeah.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, biggest, it's not a fear, but it's because it's so strange to people that sometimes it's hard to communicate how genuine you are about it. And so, ⁓ it takes time, you know, especially with a new employees, like, why are you asking about my family? Like, why, why do you want to know that? Like,

T.J. Crosby: Mm.

Joel Galloway: Yes.

Chad Curtis: And so it is such a strange thing to care sometimes. think that's probably my biggest frustration is, it can be for customers too. It's just like, look, what you see is what you get. I will do anything, anything. it's true motivation for me. It's not just words coming out of my mouth.

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Joel Galloway: It's kind of sad. live in a world where people have to be surprised at genuineness and caring and, people doing what they say they do. And I mean, while it does make, I guess it makes us look good in the light of the, the, the rest of the business market, if you will, when you, when you are that it's, it's not to be a tactical advantage. It, it really is just from a, from that

Chad Curtis: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Galloway: place that from from that love of God inside us. I think it's just the outpouring of it. But it's interesting how many people are so caught off guard and surprised like almost like what's the catch or waiting for the other shoe to drop and it's like, no, no, this is literally just this is who I am. Like, I mean, I can't can't help it.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, God is weak.

T.J. Crosby: Well, and I'll say, right. But I would say to judge, you made this point that I've kind of recommended to people that even if you don't believe any of it, the advice in the Bible on how to handle relationships, conversations, like if you just follow the advice, it works. It works. And so people that try it are like, oh wow, like that conversation went much better.

Chad Curtis: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Like.

Joel Galloway: It does. It does.

Chad Curtis: Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: It's like, yeah, you don't have to, even if you don't believe the whole sort of main thrust of it being like as a religion, you just take the principles of life and how to live your life. It's very beneficial.

Chad Curtis: Exactly. Yeah, the simple fruits of the spirit, like love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self-control, you know, all of those things are, yeah, all of those things cannot work out bad for you. They cannot work out bad for you.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah. Right.

Joel Galloway: So do you feel like that that has potentially opened doors and created opportunities in the business world for you?

Chad Curtis: absolutely. Absolutely. And I think since it's been a, it's been ingrained in the company since its founding, that ⁓ there are so many things of service we do in the industry, whether it's traveling the country speaking, ⁓ offering leadership opportunities and classes. So right now we have something that we call Conceal Academy, where we invite free of charge. We do it completely for free. Now customers have to pay for the way to get here, but we do it every other month and we do. It's not about Conceal, it's not about any of that. It's more about, how can you learn to effectively lead your teams better? And so it's basically, hey, what does true customer service look like? And so we've probably had close to

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: 150 so far people take us up from the industry. We take the most we take out of time is 20. It's kind of an intimate group and they stay here for a day and a half. And then we do some leadership training. do some group activities. We take them out to a nice dinner. We kind of grow as an industry together. And, but that, like that type of thing is where, we truly, truly do enjoy that. that type of work.

Joel Galloway: That's deeper than just buy my product because, I'm a nice guy too. That's, that's a whole nother level.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. It's a, it's, it's something that Sam lines, who is our, ⁓ managing, ⁓ engineer here. He's, he has a passion for it. He threw NPCA. He's helped with a PQS three, ⁓ for years. ⁓ but he has such a heart for, for, for the precast industry, for the concrete industry and, ⁓ the leaders and, and our customers growth.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah.

Chad Curtis: And so he started that last year and it's been great. Every class has been full and I can definitely share some dates with you guys if you want to come.

Joel Galloway: That's awesome.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah, it's exciting. Yeah, Sam, big fan of Sam Lines. He really is making an impact in the industry for sure. ⁓ Within Conceal, but even just as a person, to your point. So that's awesome.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Sam is one of my, is a great mentor for me. ⁓ His office is right next door. So I get to, am fortunate enough to spend every day with Sam lines.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah. Right. And you now have mentors that help you learn what to do, right? ⁓

Joel Galloway: Thanks.

Chad Curtis: Exactly. So yeah, I will still say to this day, and not to jump back in old conversations, but even six years into ⁓ work life at Conceal, sometimes it is still hard to believe that that's sort of real the way that the way the company kind of wants to make sure we continue.

Joel Galloway: No, you're fine. Well, it was your only exposure to working before. That was all you had. You didn't have five, six, seven different jobs through those formative years. Like that's all you knew. So I'm sure that it is a complete psychological recalibration to be able to relax in that it's a safe space, you know?

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah. Well, it was just weird to have all of these internal foundational beliefs that I ⁓ obviously would share externally through action and discussion some as well. But you would keep that close to your heart, you know, because like this was this, this was my standard, the standard was the standard. And so for those standards to be ⁓ expressed externally, ⁓ all the time is incredibly refreshing on a daily basis.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah, I mean, no doubt. ⁓ know, I appreciate you kind of talking to the faith aspect, but there's also an element of, you spent your time learning the marketing and all of that kind of consumer psychology and that sort of thing. I'd imagine that that also comes into play ⁓ in your current role. So you want to share a bit about kind of taking the time to get that education and building that knowledge, how it helps you in, from a marketing and sales perspective now?

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, ⁓ I would say what's, what's great about marketing here at Conceal too, is that there is marketing can tend to have a sleazy ⁓ aspect, ⁓ to it. So while, while there are, ⁓ educational ways and whether you get a degree in marketing or not, you're supposed to do A plus B equals C type of marketing. Conceal does marketing, ⁓ its own way also. which that way falls right alongside all of those values that we do. you know, a lot of, there's a lot of general statements out there in the industry, especially in the world that we're in. Conceal is very, very, very customer service based on not only the products, but the marketing of those products as well. So I would probably say, 15 of our products have all come from needs in the industry, like pain points where people have just said, hey, I'm really struggling with this. This is a tough part of my life, daily life. And then we have a full lab here, and we have some chemists. And we take those thoughts and values, and we basically apply those to problem solving and solutions for our customers. ⁓ Specifically on the marketing in it's basically just us Expressing our value to daily needs of our customers, whatever that may be so ⁓ Aligning aligning those things here. What what needs do you have? ⁓ Here's what I can fulfill and here's all those additional service elements that we can provide like we have a team up in New England right now ⁓ again, just doing some ⁓

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: hydrostatic testing, know, it's not a, again, it's not ⁓ anything we get from it. It's other than a service aspect. You know, we have four team members where they're up there taking some precast structures, putting them together, ⁓ making sure they can hold pressure like they need to. So the marketing side, a lot of it is customer service. Now that doesn't mean I'm not trying to grow as a company, Conceal. We only have one marketing person.

Joel Galloway: Right.

Chad Curtis: at the moment and while my degree is in marketing, we haven't gone near as far as we should have or need to go. So I'm looking forward to expanding upon that with a larger team soon. But right now it's literally been like, we want to serve, here's how our products can help and let's see where it goes from there.

T.J. Crosby: Well, that's something that's interesting. Joel, you and I have had that conversation around, you know, when, when you truly believe that your company, our case service, ⁓ and y'all's case service plus product truly helps and truly is beneficial. Then like you, you should strive to get that message out to the market. Let them know. And that's the, that's that kind of that, that weird dynamic of like, is like, especially believer, but like humility.

Chad Curtis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: but also knowing that we really are trying to help you in a way that's different than maybe what you normally experience. So how do you get that message out so they know who you are? It's kind of a weird mind trip. Right, right, right.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Galloway: Everything's different when you believe in what you are selling.

Chad Curtis: Yeah, yeah. I would say there's been so much, there's been so much trust built with customers over the years, because we will look if we don't have it, we have friends in an industry that do, you know, where we all serve alongside one another. I know concrete careers, you know, you guys are one of the first people to come to my mind if I hear someone's is looking or needs something or trying to find something. And so those relationships ⁓ together as kind of associates of the precast world.

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm.

Chad Curtis: but those pay off so well in building relationships with our customers who are buying product because there's so many opportunities to help them grow their business and when they grow, we grow as well. And so we want to help them grow. And that's been the marketing ploy for years.

T.J. Crosby: Mm-hmm. Right, right. Yeah, that's awesome.

Chad Curtis: I may not do the good word, but strategy is we enjoy helping them grow.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah. Well, that's, it's, it's just kind of the natural way that marketing happens. Right. And I think, you know, one thing, ⁓ I'd love to get more from your, your perspective on relationships in general, cause that's part of what we definitely wanted to have you on was talk about building relationships in this industry. But what, but before I get into that, you mentioned the product piece and, know, for the marketing people out there, the five P's, one of them is product. ⁓ I love the fact that also being, you know, ⁓

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm, yeah.

T.J. Crosby: So apart from any of other things, just as a company, especially one like Conceal, who is developing products that meet market needs, that's the right order. You find the need and then you build something to meet that need. seems like there's a lot of so much money and capital dropped in these days on, we developed a product. Now let's go find a need that it solves. It's what? That's backwards, you know?

Chad Curtis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's, ⁓ there's many great stories there to dive into another day, but you're exactly right. It's, ⁓ we've never been about any form of, someone's making this. We should make it too. Or this is, we, it's only been driven on, on need. and, ⁓ that

Joel Galloway: to find who would want it.

Chad Curtis: technical support of what customers are looking for, especially, especially when we deal with concrete. last thing we want them to worry about is the sealant when they're making that. So what I'll, what I'll, what other things I love about the marketing aspect is ⁓ engineered solutions is that we we're not out there just pandering a bunch of products. need to buy the Ferrari of all sealants to get your job done. I very much. Hey, ⁓

T.J. Crosby: Mm.

Chad Curtis: that conversation, that relationship like you were talking about, hey, what's going on? What are the needs? You may only need that Chevy Malibu aspect of sealant right now, and that gets the job done. And so those relationships have been cultivated over years in the sense of just, hey, we're friends. There's a lot of customers that will call me. Some of our sales reps have been there for 30, 40 years, and they'll call me and be like, hey, I don't know what I need and okay, do you know what you need? No, I don't know what I need. Just whatever Ed or my sales rep says I need, that's what I need. And so it's just like, there's these long term friendships and that's the kind of thing that I love. I so much adore relationships rather than... ⁓ awkward stranger conversations. know I'm not saying that right. Yeah, connection is a great word to say for it. like, I will admit, like, I'm probably not great at first impressions. I'm weird. You know, I probably make some awkward joke that, you know, shouldn't shouldn't be said. But yeah, exactly. But once, but once the connection is made,

Joel Galloway: transactional, yeah.

T.J. Crosby: Ha

Joel Galloway: I my first impression of you.

Chad Curtis: And it's just like, once we either find some common ground, whether it's faith or sports or kids or whatever, like once that ball is rolling, nothing brings me greater joy in that area. so, ⁓ I, and I feel that way about many of our customers is just, it's just, it's just Joel calling. It's just, you know, just TJ calling. Yeah. And I, I, yeah, love it.

T.J. Crosby: ⁓

Joel Galloway: Yeah. Trust over time. changes everything.

T.J. Crosby: Right, right.

Chad Curtis: Love that so much.

T.J. Crosby: That's what I love people that, know, are good at doing that type of relationship building. know, Joel Joel is you're you're that way. Right. We've talked about this off offline before, but, ⁓ you know, there's been conversations I've been having and I'm just a business person. Like you're like, what's your hobby? Business. What's your job? Business. You know, what do you teach your kids? and business. Right. Yeah.

Chad Curtis: Yeah, drills like that. Yeah

Joel Galloway: It is. how to generate key deliverables.

Chad Curtis: Yeah.

T.J. Crosby: I'd establish KPIs that helped them to be successful in what they're doing. But, ⁓ but you know, I'll stop and talking to somebody, but I'd ask him how businesses go in and all that. then Joel will bring in the element of like, well, you know, ⁓ so you meant you said you had two kids like how old are they? And I'm like, that's, that's it. Like that's building the relationship at a different level. ⁓ over time.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then when you have those attitudes that we have, which we love that we're genuinely interested in those conversations, you know, we're not just asking a question to say, Hey, how are your kids and then zoning out, you know, and anything. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Galloway: takes all of it. Yes.

T.J. Crosby: Right.

Joel Galloway: met people like that. That's the thing is I always want to try to make sure that my genuineness is being received and transmitted out as I speak because I have actually met people who use those things as tactics. They don't actually care. And I always was like, that's, I just feel like that is disingenuous. Like, pretend to care about somebody.

Chad Curtis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ 100%.

Joel Galloway: just to get the sale. Like I just man miss me with all that like that ain't what I'm here for. I'm telling you, get it out of here, forget about it.

Chad Curtis: ⁓ no. Get that out of here. You

T.J. Crosby: So that's a good, good point to ask. I mean, if you were to give advice within our industry to add to companies in general, what's, what's one thing you think that, and I wouldn't recommend naming names, but you can if you want, but, what's one thing you would recommend that companies at large in our industry, right? What, what should they do better? Like, what do you think, Hey, a lot of what I'm seeing, if this one thing was better and how you approach.

Joel Galloway: Please tell us exactly who needs to get better. I'm sorry.

T.J. Crosby: customers in this industry, you'd be more successful, right? And you could target at us. You'd be like, Hey, concrete careers, stop being a bunch of dummies. don't know, whatever.

Chad Curtis: man.

Joel Galloway: Yeah, mean, because we are kind of.

Chad Curtis: get out here. ⁓ Well, I can I can be dumb on many

T.J. Crosby: I'm

Chad Curtis: occasion. ⁓ Look, if I pick something out, like we're always looking for more people to be involved in the precast industry, you know, it's like I'm wearing the rock on the NPCA, the hoodie, you know, right now. ⁓ And, ⁓ you know, the getting involved ⁓ in ⁓ any fashion, whether ⁓ joining the leadership

Joel Galloway: That's it.

Chad Curtis: ⁓ LNPCA and gaining some ⁓ new friends and industry partners that way, whether it's joining a committee, whether it's getting involved in a task force or just attending the gallery and things. Those are tangible, easy things. And I know there's some financial investment in that as well, but those are some easy things where it says, look, I'm invested in the success of precast as a whole. And, it's something when I first started, I didn't quite understand until I joined. was like, okay, you're part of an association. was a part of many associations at the architecture firm, but it's different because we're, we are directly making decisions that impact the future of precast, whether it's on the marketing side, whether it's on the safety side, whether it's on the quality performance, competitive materials, all of that matters. Just like other companies are looking at competitors, we are as a precast industry are looking at that also. And without everyone's involvement, ⁓ we're not going to grow or be as strong as we could be together. And so I love the being a part of the NPCA. I love being a part of other many state associations. That's something I'm passionate about is ⁓ state and local precast associations. And so if anyone listening is a part of one of those and wants to get in touch with the NPCA or grow or use some of the resources available there, please reach out. I'm available. We're all in here to grow the industry for sure.

T.J. Crosby: That's awesome. Yeah, it's great advice. And I'll say for, you know, continue to plug ⁓ our involvement in NPCA, ⁓ such as some of the committees has yielded us opportunities that wouldn't have probably been there. ⁓ where we've developed relationships, we have a, a client of ours that I'll admit we did not do a very good job for a little while there. And she was very patient. And I was like, I was kind of like, Hey, do you want like a refund? And she said, she said, no.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Hahaha

T.J. Crosby: And she said, no, I really like you. I like what y'all are about. I like what the company stands for. I want to find a way to be successful together. And I owe that only to having developed a true relationship. Because otherwise, I mean, I was happy to give the, here's the escape hatch, like if you need it, you know, because we were not doing a good job.

Chad Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get outta here.

Joel Galloway: That's an example of somebody like the way we are. That mindset right there was about more than just a dollar and not everybody has that. so that she was genuine in that same way. And so it's great when you can find those people to actually partner with.

Chad Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Joel Galloway: Chad, that is fantastic information that you shared with us. Before we go ⁓ can you give us some advice to somebody who is out in the right now, trying to find a way to persevere through to maybe get to this other side that you've reached? Maybe.

Chad Curtis: Yeah.

Joel Galloway: A piece of advice that you would have given to yourself 10 years ago with the knowledge you have right

Chad Curtis: is a great question. One, look, if you are going through it right now, look, we've been there. We've been there and ⁓ perseverance, know, keep that good team around you. I would say if I could go back and like say one thing for success ⁓ that I wish I would have started earlier is to start with like one daily habit and be intentional about those habits. Because what happens with With leadership is really, it can become such a jungle gym of mess and without, without, ⁓ getting some good habits in place and placing some good strategy around what your day looks like. It can be definitely a challenging growth. So build one habit, be intentional about that. and success is built through consistency. I would say is another good thing to remember is that even through those years at the old job. being a consistent same person delivering on what I, even on the hardest days where my wife knew that I was going through it. And if we were close friends, you would know that I'm going through it. You could see it in my eyes. But you can't take away those values. You can't take away those standards that are in there no matter what you say, no matter what you do. And that's what I'm pushing through. So those are my two. two things of advice is hey, build some daily habits for yourself and success will compound for you or grow for you through being consistent.

T.J. Crosby: And to love that, to bring it, to loop it back to the final four conversation at the top of the podcast. ⁓ the difference between being good and great is consistency. All right. Good teams kind of sprint and drift great teams consistently perform. that's, that's the other consistency. That's a great thing to focus on a hundred percent.

Chad Curtis: Yeah Yep. There you go.

Joel Galloway: Chad, we're glad you were here with us today. Fantastic. Thank you so much for taking all this time. I mean, I don't even, don't even feel like this is work. We're just hanging out. Hey, I'm fine. Same time, same place.

Chad Curtis: Absolutely. Yeah, let's do it tomorrow. That'll be great.

T.J. Crosby: Right?

Chad Curtis: Yeah, well I appreciate you guys having me. I appreciate Concrete Careers. I appreciate you two, gentlemen, your good friends. Anything you guys ever need, I'm here. Let me know.

T.J. Crosby: Yeah, same to you. Appreciate it.

Joel Galloway: we feel the same way. Thanks so much.